Notes

[quote=LurkerDiscusses message=65675099][size=120]Hello,this will be a somewhat lengthy post looking to go into detail about how KNY got this insane popularity in as close as to objective as possible without buzzwords and the like. [b]will be posting a TLDR and quick Q/A for people who want to skim near the end.[/b] This post might be edited a couple of times to adjust formatting or add info i forgot to add.

Before we start i do want to say that i do like Kimetsu,so perhaps it will be a bit biased. Though i'll refrain from posting any subjective opinion of my own and try to be as close to objective as possible.

In recent years i've been tracking anime/manga finance so Kimetsu has been a really amazing phenomenon which led me to question how did it get to this place and If its possible to get something like this again.

First off lets start with
[i][b]Kimetsu's pre-anime. Was it popular or well liked? Was it going to be cancelled?[/b][/i]

Kimetsu was published in Weekly shonen Jump, a weekly shonen magazine that gave us almost all iconic and well known IP's such as Dragon ball,Naruto,Death note,One Piece,Bleach,Gintama,Jojo,Slam dunk,HunterxHunter and others.

Weekly shonen jump is the most popular manga magazine and the most cutthroat. Manga authors tend to gravitate towards it as its the best place to get popular. It is cutthroat because they work based on TOC (Table of Contents). Each week a manga gets its placement on TOC based on Editors and reader surveys. If a manga gets near the end or at the end then its going to be cancelled. So its very important to hook the readers and show editors your potential. Sales of a manga do influence a cancellation decision but as long as its above a certain baseline for the type of manga its unlikely to get cancelled. TOC is usually treated as much more important then sales. Quite a fair bit of manga get cancelled before a Volume 1 or 2 releases. And a fair bit of manga get cancelled despite good or decent sales but horrible TOC. Though it is important to mention that WSJ golden age was with Dragon ball/Slam dunk. And has suffered a severe decline in sales and revenue since. from About 6.5M weekly to about 1.6M weekly currently. Though this is due to other factors and was mitigated by other factors. This isn't the topic to discuss such thing so i won't go into it.
Also keep in mind that TOC can be heavily influenced by Editors to push certain manga,for example Samurai 8. Though a push is usually made obvious with the marketing they do. This does not usually happen to newbies. And a pushed failure will be cancelled.As WSJ wants to push hit after hit and focuses on that.

Kimetsu's first chapter reception was well received from posts on 5ch and yaraon. Though people feared it won't fair well on WSJ due to the nature of it. First chapter or first three are extremely important as you need to hook people in otherwise people will drop it and not vote for it in survey.

In terms of general popularity outside the internet,it was very popular that it got a cover page at chapter 7. Which is very rare and only happens to very well liked series.Gotouge (The author) has admitted to being blindsided by it and had to draw it in a hurry. In the interview [url=https://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/17760339/]Here[/url] (There are multiple interviews with Kimetsu's editors if anyone interested,though only one was translated. They provide good POV) it was confirmed

[quote]
[b]What was the response from readers once the series started?[/b]

Both the first and second chapters were well received. People often say that we were on the verge of cancellation, but there was no such crisis. I believe that "Kimetsu no Yaiba" is only possible because of the readers who have supported us since that time.
In fact, I was given the center color for episode 7. I got it in a hurry because it was very popular with readers. However, the number of pages for the center color is larger than usual. Since I had already finished the name, I had to have it added in a hurry.
[/quote]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/JkK2fc4.png[/img]

Picture above,its weighted average out of 10.closer to 0 is best while 10 is worst (cancelled series go there)

The TOC history for Kimetsu supports this with a weighted average of Top 5.18 on TOC in 2016 and about 2.96 on 2017 and 2.28 on 2018,Keep in mind that Top 1 is usually almost always One piece and high TOC placements also tend to gravitate towards those with anime as they have bigger fanbase in general , it was doing very well that it was never in the danger of cancellation. The sales of kimetsu while not being very high pre-anime they were still selling decently and on upward trajectory from volume to volume which shows growth.

With that being said,[b]we arrive to the conclusion that Kimetsu was never going to be cancelled at any point of time.and was popular with WSJ readers[/b] It was always going to end by the time the author wish it ended and it would have gotten an anime regardless since its WSJ. In fact Gotouge has gone with her original plan of a short story and did not decide to stretch it despite the immense popularity it gotten post-anime.

[b]Kimetsu sales explosion and comparison with other similar situations[/b]

Kimetsu's Popularity and sales post-anime aren't unknown things. It absolutely broke everything and surpassed everything. With two Japanese prime ministers commenting on it and one who read it. It was unbelievable in terms of explosion and sales so much that it is over 9 billion in revenue for the IP despite being so young. It is simply insanity how extremely popular it got. There's no words to describe this amount of unfathomable success.
If someone wants to read them then there's a collection thread on [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/KimetsuNoYaiba/comments/p8om1o/demon_slayer_kimetsu_no_yaiba_record_of_slayed/]Reddit[/url] or [url=http://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2288618#p2288618
]Worldofkj (Movie tracking)[/url] or simply [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Slayer:_Kimetsu_no_Yaiba]Wikipedia[/url]. Won't be discussing them here since it's not relevant to the point of the thread.

As a general rule: every manga gets a boost with anime, some extremely rare ones get close to nothing (Eden zero, Assassination classroom) and some are the extreme in the opposite side (AOT and KNY)
i'll post some manga sale numbers pre-anime and post-anime.

[b]Please note that this comparison is fuzzy since writing it in extreme detail and depth with nothing behind will take a lot of time and text. So i'll simply compare pre and current numbers with vols added.[/b]

Kimetsu had 4.5M at 13 vols pre-anime. 150M currently (23 vols,ended)
One Punch man: 5.8M (9 vol), 30M current (22 vol)
Mob Psycho : Unkown ??? (Less then 1M,12 vols),1.2M current (16 vols)
Fire Force: 1.8M (16 vol),15M (28 vol)
Vinland Saga: 5M (22 vols), 5.5M (24 vol)

So the question here is why all of these despite high quality animation failed to reach Kimetsu's success? or any success at all (Vinland,Mob psycho). Some only had very minor boosts. One Punch man comes close as it became an internet phenomenon,though nowhere close in terms of sales and popularity.

Some are outright flops that bankrupt an entire studio despite being arguably the best or most animated 2D anime ever (Redline - Madhouse). Some does not really achieve that much success like Fate's for Ufotable. Although Fate IP in general has had great success since Fate UBW. However it did not translate to movie box office or mainstream hyper popularity. Ufotable also had Tales of Zestiria that did not translate to a measurable success at all.

Related to this whole point: Toriko is also another example of that no matter how much mass marketing,animation (Even a movie by ufotable), shoutouts from veterans (Oda and others). Won't really help you to be successful if people just don't like the source material or any other reason. You simply cannot manufacture a hit let alone one as big as Kiimetsu.

So its clear there is something else in here other then animation. As another and final example to illustrate the point we'll go to the most recent and best similar situation we had or ever will.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/sljH2vb.jpg[/img]

Jujutsu Kaisen, a very popular series that had great sales pre-anime as well as coming in the most prime time with Kimetsu having ended and airing in COVID lockdowns.As well as heavy marketing in TV by TOHO/Shueisha. It made perfect sense to capitalize in the vacuum KNY left and market it towards that audience as the "next big thing". They also made sure to have it as pretty as possible and also have popular badass good looking characters to capture the female audience (Gojo) and male teenagers. Female audience is very relevant in manga since they consume a lot and are a majoirity of theater goers. Keep in mind any shonen or espeically popular manga recently is likely to have a lopside audience towards female. So popular characters tend to be ikemen or fujo-y characters. this is also proven by popular character polls that WSJ conducts. This is a general point that applies to all(or the ones i checked at least) popular shonen.

Though what we notice is their trends of popularity is different,JJK and Tokyo revengers (TR) has peaked during their anime airing. Which is where most manga sales peak so its not unusual. Kimetsu however was the opposite. slowly gaining popularity then exploding after the anime ended. This is extremely rare in manga to anime sales in general.

This is because Kimetsu's popularity was heavily due to word of mouth (WoM). The sales chart proves it as well as Nakano (Jump Editor-in-Chief.Basically the CEO of WSJ) words:

[quote]"Normally, a manga gradually sells more copies throughout the anime's run, but Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba's sales shot up straight after the anime ended," he said, indicating that a large number of people watched the anime through streaming services after it ended rather than watching it weekly.
Demon Slayer's success hinged on word of mouth generated after the anime's run, he argued.
[/quote]

So Demon slayer's popularity was definitely not solely due to the animation. Although it was greatly boosted by it and one of multiple important aspects for it.


Incase i've downplayed it, i want to mention that Jujutsu is a massive success and one of the biggest hits on WSJ history (IIRC its almost matching AOT's per volume), so it turned out well for Toho/Shuiesha. Tokyo revengers despite below average or average animation has also broken AOT's yearly sales record.

About other manga/anomalies:

Attack on Titan's is an anomaly in this because it was very popular in a different magazine (still the second most popular however) and had high sales pre-anime and after the high quality anime it got by WIT it blew up AOT up to a mini-KNY explosion.The anime BD's alone sold 450K copies back in 2013-2014.Though it suffered a heavy decline after that.

Assassination classroom is another anomaly in the opposite direction,one of the highest sellers pre-anime ever for WSJ yet did not gain much from the anime at all. Suggesting it already reached its audience.


[b] But what do other people find in Kimetsu's? It doesn't seem to be very special [/b]

This is where subjectivity comes. In order to be as objective as possible i'll be quoting Manga authors.

Excerpt from Kinoko Nasu [Type/moon Fate author,recommended it at volume 10] This is probably the most in depth we get. Otherwise other mangaka recommend it and read it without going into depth why they like it.

[spoiler][quote]
Nasu:
　When the first part of "FGO" was finished, I was asked in an interview, "What's your favorite content right now? I remember answering "Kimetsu no Yaiba". I just said, "Read it and you'll understand," because it's definitely interesting to those who read it and have the same sensibilities.
　The author, Gotouge, has taken great care in every aspect of the story, and I don't feel dislike for any of the characters, whether they are bad guys or good guys. In addition to that, it's a story that brings out his sensibility, so if you can understand his values, what he wants to say, his kindness, or his beliefs, it will definitely be interesting.

　However, there are definitely people who don't like it, so I can't strongly recommend it to them if you ask what makes it interesting as a manga. So just try reading it, and if your sensibilities match, you will definitely be able to keep your eyes on it until the end. I think all the manga readers who read the first volume probably thought that no matter how the story ends, the theme...and the artist's sensibility will never waver.

Matsunaga: The view of life and death in that world is particularly good, isn't it? Stories in which characters die in absurd ways were popular in the past, but this one goes even further.

Nasu: That's right. There are some writers who take that view of life and death a little harder and make it more entertaining or explicit, but "Kimetsu no Yaiba" doesn't treat death as entertainment. If you are cut down, you die. If your family is taken from you, your heart dies. It treats it as something quite natural. It's dry and full of impermanence, but it's also trying to convey very sincerely what we should do and how we should think in the face of such difficulties. The manga is full of both good and bad people, but the reason why you don't feel disgusted no matter where you look is because there is no 'malicious intent to bring people down' in the work. Even the greatest evil, the miserable (Muzan), has no thought of wanting to defile others because they are happy. He is portrayed as an evil who simply wants to live.

Nasu: Technically speaking, I'd say that they use the characters' emotions as dialogue. In "Kimetsu no Yaiba," it's very easy to understand. On the other hand, in the Gotouge short story collection, they clearly did not do that.

I think the fact that the style is so different is due to the fact that it was done on purpose. That's why so many people can understand it. It is inherently difficult to put emotions into dialogue, and it is often the case that "I am very angry right now, but if I say this out loud, the weight of my anger will change." This is especially true in Japanese. In "Kimetsu no Yaiba," I chose to use strong words and cut to the chase. In Shonen Jump, I think that was a very strong move.

I think this grammar is similar to the technique of "incorporating monologues from novels into manga," which was used by Takayuki Yamaguchi, the author of "Kakugo no Susume (Apocalypse Zero)" when he started "Shigurui."

The greatest advantage of a novel is the ability to put emotions into words. You can never do that with images. If you don't use images to express emotions, but say everything with lines, then you don't need to act. But "Shigurui" was able to do it with such power of art and such a sense of urgency. Many manga artists were shocked and said, "Wow, he's doing something amazing! Many manga artists must have been shocked. Even I, as a writer, was shocked.[/quote] [/spoiler]

[url=https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/weekly-shonen-jump-2021-discussion-and-toc-talk.3017861/page-85#post-5424031]Full interview can be found here,Beware as there's spoilers near the end [/url] Note that Gotouge is a woman,machine translation is putting it up as a "he and his" somehow.

Togashi [HunterxHunter]

Volume 3 recommendation text: "(Hope:Despair) ≒ (Hate:Love) This is the golden rule followed by works that I usually come to like. And as for this series... I love it."

[spoiler] [img]https://i.imgur.com/ZktgMrT.jpg[/img] [/spoiler]

Togashi also said despite trying to steer away from reading battle manga, He has kept a close eye on Kimetsu [url=https://twitter.com/HxHSource/status/1034727886878429184]Full interview[/url] (Kimetsu's was only a comment as seen in picture above)



Takayuki Yamaguchi [Shigurui] has also recommended it in a 2018 interview around the time of the 10th volume. Did not say much aside from the fact that he loves there's "blood in every frame"

Akihito Tsukushi of [Made in Abyss] also praised it in 2018 around the time of the 10th volume. in a tweet which he said "Yesterday, I almost got off the bullet train because it was so interesting." (Machine translation so its a bit off) referring to Mugen's train.


Osamu Akimoto [KochiKame] also recommended it in volume 5. He did not say much aside from the book [50th Anniversary exhibition book] interview where he talked about Jump's recent direction.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZPOC2kK.jpg[/img]


All of these recommendations and comments are pre anime aside from the in-depth Nasu interview.

I don't really want to post western manga critcs for multiple reasons. But they all have praised the series. Some to note are Rebeceaa's,Chile Gilson,Douresseaux and Melina Dargis. They're easily available to read If one wants to go more in depth.
There's also a Japanese review by Nobuyuki Izumi that goes into a different kind of depth. He talks about the series history and the decisions it made.

[b] But why buy Kimetsu manga? the art doesn't look that good [/b]

Here's Araki [JoJo's Bizarre Adventure] take on it

[spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/gukn48n.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

My subjective opinion [spoiler][quote] I agree with araki,even amazing art like Toriyama or Inoue takehiko or Kentaro Miura it is still unique. You'd look at that and you'd see the personality/individual touch of it and you'd know what manga it is. Berserk has perfected art while still being unique. Even ones with "bad art" like KNY or CSM are still appealing. While you can go to manga reading website and read manga with good art and another that has really well done too but they still share similarites. Like a corporate manufactured thing. [/quote][/spoiler]


[b] So what are the factors that led to this immense popularity and success for Demon Slayer : Kimetsu No Yaiba? [/b]

This is subjective mixed with objective data. But i personally think its due to being a simple yet beautiful story + Anime with great Animation and OST that captures that + rare setting (Taisho period) + WoM of people who like it then recommend it to people who will like it ad infinitum. I think it also came in a good time and place (Luck). Luck in general plays a massive factor everywhere regardless of IP. Our life is heavily influenced by luck :)

Another point is that Kimetsu has done the impossible and got everyone from teenagers to elderly. Only a few that have done that or come very close (AOT). Though obviously KNY numbers are unmatched.

Most manga or shonen tend to go towards one or two age groups (Usually teenagers) , or heavily skewed towards a specific gender.

also it has done the impossible and got an audience beyond manga/anime in Japan itself. Left is JJK author and Right is OPM. Their words are corroborated by KNY manga sales which surpassed almost everything in history in terms of per volume as well as publishing industry numbers or in general records/people/polications talking etc. So it most definitely has gotten more Japanese people into anime/manga. This is probably a factor in increasing its popularity beyond being just "normal" popular.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/gAq1sid.png[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/6lCxaBc.png[/img]


[b]TLDR[/b]: Kimetsu popularity is due to multiple factors. There is no specific thing.

[b]Q&A (Partly subjective)[/b]:

1.Was Kimetsu about to be cancelled before the anime?

No

2.Was Kimetsu carried by animation? What if it had bad animation?

No,we don't know what "what ifs" will result in. But i still think it'd be popular.

3.Kimetsu was unknown before the anime on Japan?

Nope

4.Will we ever see something like Kimetsu's again?

Likely not. Japan's population in decline and with lopsided demographics and will only get worse when more years pass. Most records will be set in stone forever within a couple of years. But it is still possible for a miracle to happen again. I just wouldn't bet on it.
In fact nobody really expected this kind of immense success. And generally this kind of extreme success is unexpected to everybody. This goes beyond manga/anime industry and more in general.

For manga sales it is possible if worldwide sales continue to grow. But everything will be inflated by then so it'd be a comparison of different IP's.

5.Kimetsu's story is full of plot holes and is garbage. Carried by animation

What story or shonen that gone long enough without plot holes? Only manga that avoid plot holes are the ones that are very short.
Also Very complex stories does not lend well to sales. In fact they're niche.

There's a reason why almost all best sellers and popular anime / manga have simple or easy to understand story. Stuff like LoGH,Texhnolyze will always be niche things.
For reference as an example of a manga pre-anime Kaiju.8 has simple story and is the fastest seller in WSJ history. with 3 million in 3 volumes and had 100 million readers. Kaiju also broke launch records in manga sales in both France & USA.

In actuality good vs evil is as old as human storytelling. Lord of the Rings has pretty simple story yet is influential and historic work that has been read for over 70 years and has been imprinted in human history.

6.You're a fanboy and this is extremely biased

I wouldn't really call myself a fanboy. Honestly my most favorite anime ever are niche stuff. as for bias i tried to be as neutral as possible.

7.So why is Demon Slayer : Kimetsu No Yaiba Popular?

Beautiful/emotional story,Great anime,massive word of mouth,Luck,easy to understand and mass appeal,Classic era shonen (Saint seiya classic)

[b]In the end please provide quality discussion and avoid buzzword or low quality posts.[/b]

With that said i realize i spent a lot of effort in a somewhat meaningless thing as there are more things to keep ahead of (Anime industry issues and future). But it is still interesting subject which is why i looked into it. And decided to write the topic because i'm having quite a bit of free time + boredom.[/size][/quote]