Notes

[7:27:49 PM] Jesse (drynitz) Hedman: RIP NA
[7:53:39 PM] Alexey Bershteyn [RU]: Simp did well
[7:58:01 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: yes they did
[7:59:03 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: they got really lucky on that first prok, the first finals set against lemming train they got worked down over time by being too passive
[7:59:25 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but when they started getting aggressive in the second set they really showed something solid and only barely lost it in the end
[7:59:40 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: SIMP definitely would've beaten PVP for fuck's sake
[8:00:15 PM] Ismail: yeah prokh was messy for you guys
[8:00:25 PM] Alexey Bershteyn [RU]: u never know naga
[8:00:28 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the PVP prok was a nightmare of chaos
[8:00:44 PM] Ismail: yeah i was confused, and i was just watching
[8:00:46 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the conversation with other teams here is very interesting
[8:00:51 PM] Ismail: yeah?
[8:00:58 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: everyone agrees the game is in the worst state it has ever been
[8:01:13 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: that the format and maps absolutely have to change for this to work
[8:01:19 PM] Ismail: yep
[8:01:34 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the phrase is "this game is so fucking random"
[8:01:45 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the only way to compensate for the randomness is to camp, that's it
[8:01:55 PM] Ismail: heh
[8:01:57 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but we were experiencing some really, really weird shit all tournament long
[8:02:20 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: while we were practicing I fired 6 shots from a 13 90 on another 13 90 that wasn't moving from 200m, literally not moving at all
[8:02:24 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: and all 6 missed.
[8:02:46 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: spotting was FUBAR, we were getting spotted in situations where we definititely should've seen the opponent, but didn't see it
[8:02:54 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: which we noticed for the first time practicing SIMP at home
[8:03:16 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: one match I spotted blue stationary at the top of a hill, he didn't spot me back while I was moving and there were no bushes in between
[8:03:22 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: something is more broken than usual for sure
[8:03:56 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: Which, to be clear, I'm not saying is the reason we lost. We lost because we sucked, no doubt about it
[8:04:17 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but the circumstances of the tournament and the game certainly did not help
[8:04:35 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: any luck at all with RNG/spotting mechanics on Ruinberg and we would've at least drawn it
[8:04:50 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: my last shot on that IS3 was fully aimed and went edge of reticle to lose our match
[8:05:10 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the only reason I was so low was because an IS3 drilled the corner of my turret (very, very small shot) for a high roll
[8:05:32 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: when hugo, jackie and friction were getting ready to push to break their camp we had a 50 100 shooting them that we couldn't spot
[8:06:29 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: through a window, where our view ports could definitely see the only angle possible and we never saw it
[8:06:45 PM] Ismail: the code is not up to par, never has been.
[8:07:08 PM] Ismail: its pretty substandard for 2014
[8:07:11 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: which fucked our whole confidence up. I should've pulled us back, but I can't stand drawing. The idea of going to Sand River in a new game mode is insulting and it's a fucking joke for eSports
[8:07:13 PM] Ismail: or 2012 really
[8:07:35 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: when we played VP on Himmels, they spotted me and soviet on the hill without their t1 being spotted back and we could see the whole ramp
[8:07:41 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: which is mechanically supposed to be impossible
[8:07:49 PM] Ismail: after playing certain other game, that shall not be named, then playing this...and comparing the two engines..its painful.
[8:08:02 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: this distracted me so much I forgot to rotate a tank I usually do and that rotation would've won us the match
[8:08:09 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: which again, is my fault for allowing myself to be distracted
[8:08:10 PM] Ismail: That T1 weirdness on himmels hill has been an issue forever
[8:08:42 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but I'd absolutely love it if the game was more consistent and more reliable
[8:09:02 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the style we play requires everything to go right and if the game isn't right, that's a problem for us
[8:09:13 PM | Edited 8:09:59 PM] Ismail: I dont think they (developers they have) how to make it more reliable and consistent in terms of the spotting and whatnot. Or its not a priority for them to learn how to make it work.
[8:09:13 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but I'd rather quit the game than camp. There's no point in playing this and camping
[8:09:49 PM] Zomb1efood/Chris A.: ive always joked that you get an rng value for you camo rating at the beginning of each match
[8:09:54 PM] Zomb1efood/Chris A.: but fuck...
[8:10:43 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: this tournament was still nowhere near the clusterfuck that WCG was both years though
[8:11:02 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: however for a "grand final" the prize pool and the organization was pretty disappointing
[8:11:08 PM] Ismail: Nothing was as bad as Ural Steel
[8:11:20 PM] Ismail: be happy, lol.
[8:11:21 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: on the plus side I heard we at least had the fastest match today, which earns us the Blitz prize pool
[8:11:25 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: which would be nice
[8:11:32 PM] Ismail: yeah? whats that
[8:11:36 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: however, regardless of that, I'm still adamant that the blitz mechanic is utterly retarded
[8:11:41 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: oh you don't know?
[8:11:43 PM] Ismail: nope
[8:12:00 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: they were awarding cash for each victory, scaling depending on the depth of the bracket
[8:12:14 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: any time a draw occurs, that cash goes into the blitz prize pool instead
[8:12:20 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: and the fastest win of the day gets the cash
[8:12:20 PM | Edited 8:12:24 PM] Ismail: oh
[8:12:28 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: which I was convinced would go to the team that camped while someone else rushed
[8:12:38 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but I heard we got it on Mines against China
[8:12:42 PM] Ismail: nice
[8:12:50 PM] Ismail: well thats something i guess.
[8:12:59 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I'll be upset if we or lemming train didn't get it
[8:13:07 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: because no one else played fast enough to deserve it at all
[8:13:19 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: if we did: thank you VP for being so fucking campy
[8:13:36 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: you hear about the first match between Unity and VP?
[8:13:41 PM] Ismail: no
[8:13:44 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: Full Ensk match. No tanks spotted, no damage done
[8:13:48 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: what a fucking joke.
[8:13:49 PM] Ismail: lmao
[8:14:10 PM] Ismail: thats amazing.
[8:14:34 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I won't blame VP for their ruthless pragmatism. It's WG's fault for failing so utterly hard at providing the ability to push without maximizing risk
[8:14:40 PM] Ismail: yep
[8:14:45 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: 50 million on planes that don't exist, 2.5 mil on eSports
[8:14:47 PM] Ismail: i no longer blame teams for camping really
[8:14:51 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: 300k "grand final"
[8:14:56 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: no it's the only real option left
[8:15:00 PM] Ismail: right.
[8:15:05 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but we refuse to, because it's incredibly short sighted for the league
[8:15:15 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: it's a smash and grab for right now, but no one wants to watch that shit
[8:15:19 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I can't even watch that
[8:15:44 PM] Ismail: Well, considering its not going to change, smash and grab is the only long term strategy.
[8:15:50 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: What I want is for us in NA to bust our asses testing and developing aggressive strats and refining our execution
[8:15:51 PM] Ismail: so it seems anyway
[8:15:55 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: and utterly crushing these campers
[8:16:16 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: Even Na Vi is at risk right now
[8:16:27 PM] Ismail: dont see it happening without more solid teams with stability...and this late in the game.. i dno.
[8:16:50 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: because dev is too busy ruining pubs and ignoring clan wars to bother with eSports apparently
[8:16:55 PM] Ismail: yep.
[8:17:14 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: you guys hopefully know that I've tried to be one of the most supportive and positive people about the future of WoT eSports
[8:17:29 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but I'm having serious trouble maintaining that at this point
[8:17:29 PM] Ismail: Well Naga, its a noble quest but, the proverbial holy grail doesnt exist.
[8:17:53 PM] Ismail: smash and grab is all there is until they fix it
[8:17:53 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: it's just such a shame
[8:18:08 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: because this game could be so amazing to watch and so dynamic
[8:18:53 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but it's really hard to maintain hope when the company believes the Waffle E 100 is OK to add to the game
[8:19:16 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: or that Tier 10 meds and tds needed more power than the tier 9s at the time
[8:19:37 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: instead of just bumping them up and adding middle tiers to balance the shit storm that happens around there
[8:19:38 PM] Ismail: lol
[8:19:51 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the game was nearly perfect before the E5 was added
[8:20:07 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: ever since then it's like they dropped the gameplay from space
[8:20:10 PM] Ismail: all that was needed was the rng fixed they did
[8:20:13 PM] Ismail: and it woulda been fine
[8:20:19 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: +/- 25% lol
[8:20:19 PM] Ismail: back then, before the E5
[8:20:29 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: please share whatever you're smoking if you think that's ok under any circumstance
[8:20:39 PM] Ismail: Is that what it is now?
[8:20:46 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: that's what it's always been
[8:21:04 PM] Ismail: well, you know me and my hate of rng
[8:21:05 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the difference is a 69 one clipping a 13 90
[8:21:10 PM] Ismail: ive been bitching about it since 2012
[8:21:10 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: or a 13 90 one clipping an is3
[8:21:32 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: PvE is one of the most important improvements possible, where is it?
[8:21:51 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I'm a PvP addict and I would pay serious money for WW2 based PvE matches
[8:22:06 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: it would make america explode and increase profits
[8:22:24 PM] Ismail: oh well
[8:22:25 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: whatever, I'm not gonna keep ranting about this
[8:22:33 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I'm just super bitter right now
[8:22:35 PM] Ismail: sound like me circa 2012
[8:22:39 PM] Ismail: i feel your pain
[8:22:45 PM] Ismail: except you guys got farther
[8:23:01 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I've always felt this way, I just felt hope was necessary for tha tpotential to be reached
[8:23:08 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: and I still think the potential is worth sticking around
[8:23:22 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: but this tournament is depressing as hell
[8:23:29 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: that draw rule has influenced so many matches
[8:23:36 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: 1 point for a win, 1 point for a draw. GG
[8:23:40 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: get one win, camp the rest
[8:23:46 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: how did you not see that coming?
[8:23:49 PM] Ismail: heh
[8:24:30 PM] Ismail: well considering how they dont really do what we think is best, ever, i dont have hope.
[8:24:52 PM] Canaduck .: im content to hoping that the way things are done to run the tournament is changed to be better next season, not even getting into ingame mechanics just hoping for things that really should be changed for next season are eg. every1 plays every1
[8:24:53 PM] Ismail: and as long as the Russians keep playing this shit out of it..it wont change.
[8:25:23 PM | Edited 8:25:35 PM] Ismail: a well run tournament kinda goes hand in hand with a well designed game tho
[8:25:26 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: the game absolutely needs to go to 5v5, assault/defense like Counter Strike
[8:25:42 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: 40% more costs, 40% more problems overall
[8:25:59 PM | Edited 8:26:08 PM] Ismail: preaching to the choir
[8:26:18 PM] Ismail: le sigh
[8:26:33 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: I'd be fine with all of it if arty was still viable. it was a reasonable format back then even the maps were unfair
[8:26:52 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: Ruinberg was basically impossible to draw back then
[8:27:02 PM] David Williams - Nagatron: Steppes was dynamic, now it's the #1 bannedmap of the week
[8:27:20 PM] Jesse (drynitz) Hedman: apparently wg promised $10 million esports budget next year
[8:27:28 PM] Ismail: lolwut